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Still Defending Torture

Happy "Independence Day" 2009!


It's sad to see that there are still people who think they are "defending America" by supporting the policies of the corrupt and powerful interests who are destroying it. I received the following letter earlier today. My reply appears beneath it.  (I didn't get into the fact some "suspects" were beaten to death in custody or touch on the reports of rape, including the rape of children. I stuck mostly with what I feel is the best argument against torturing people.) 


Here is what I received: 




The prelude to the "response" below, from Colonel Bud Day, Medal of Honor recipient - prisoner of war survivor - reads "I didn't expect to be reminded of my treatment some 36 years ago on this holiday weekend but our politicians find it worthy to ignore what some have tried to recount to them, who have actually been there."

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I got shot down over N Vietnam in 1967..a squadron commander.

After I returned in 1973..  I published 2 books that dealt a lot with "real torture" in Hanoi .  Our make believe president is branding our country as a bunch of torturers when he has no idea what torture is.
As for me, put thru a mock execution, because I would not respond...pistol whipped on the head...same event..  Couple of days later...hung by my feet all day. I escaped and got recaptured a couple of weeks later..  I got shot and recaptured.  Shot was OK...what happened after was not.
They marched me to Vinh..  put me in the rope trick, trick..almost pulled my arms out of the sockets. Beat me on the head with a little wooden rod until my eyes were swelled shut, and my unshot, unbroken hand a pulp.
Next day hung me by the arms...rebroke my right wrist...wiped out the nerves in my arms that con trol the hands..rolled my fingers up into a ball.  Only left the slightest movement of my L forefinger.  So I started answering with some incredible lies.
Sent me to Hanoi strapped to a barrel of gas in the back of a truck.
Hanoi ..on my knees..rope trick again.  Beaten by a big fool.
Into leg irons on a bed in Heartbreak Hotel.
Much kneeling--hands up at Zoo.
Really bad beating for refusing to con demn Lyndon Johnson.
Several more kneeling events.  I could see my knee bone thru kneeling holes.
There was an escape from the annex to the Zoo.  I was the Senior Officer of a large building because of escape..they started a mass torture of all commanders.
I think it was July 7, 1969..they started beating me with a car fan belt.  In first 2 days I took over 300 strokes..then stopped counting because I never thought I would live thru it.
They con tinued day-nite torture to get me to con fess to a non-existent part in the escape.  This went on for at least 3 days.  On my belting..  cut open my scrotum with fan belt stroke.  opened up both knee holes again.  My fanny looked like hamburger..I could not lie on my back.
They tortured me into admitting that I was in on the escape..and that my 2 room-mates knew about it.
The next day I denied the lie.
They commenced torturing me again with 3- 6- or 9 strokes of the fan belt every day from about July 11 or 14 October 1969.  I con tinued to refuse to lie about my roommates again.

Now, the point of this is that our make-believe president has declared to the world that we ( U.S. ) are a bunch of torturers..  Thus it will be OK to torture us next time when they catch us.....because that is what the U.S.  does.
Our make-believe president is a know nothing fool who thinks that pouring a little water on some one's face, or hanging a pair of women's pants over an Arabs head is TORTURE.  He is a meathead..
I just talked to MOH holder Leo Thorsness who was also in my squadron  in jail ... as was John McCain ... and we agree that McCain does not speak for the POW group when he claims that Al Gharib was torture .. or that "water boarding" is torture.
Our president and those fools around him who keep bad mouthing our great country are a disgrace to the United States .  Please pass this info on to Sean Hannity.  He is free to use it to point out the stupidity of the claims that water boarding ....which has no after effect... is torture.  If it got the Arab to cough up the story about how he planned the attack on the twin towers in NYC ... hurrah for the guy who poured the water.


My Reply:


...First, our own government has prosecuted people for waterboarding. Why? Because it is deemed torture.


Second, the whole point of using the technique is to solicit false confessions. (With a confession, no evidence of a crime is needed.) Bush himself would admit to planning the 9/11 attacks if thrown in a Saudi Arabian dungeon and waterboarded long enough...would you support his execution based on the confession?


Now, an even bigger issue is this: Innocent people were SOLD to our military (for $5,000 a piece) by Afghan warlords. These INNOCENT people were held (some still held) without charges, tortured, and were never given the opportunity to challenge their accusers for YEARS. All because they were labeled a "terrorist suspect" by somebody who stood to profit (financially and / or politically.) This kind of "justice system" does not make "America Great." Rather, it erodes everything it was meant to stand for.


It's all so easy when people falsely believe "only bad guys" are subjected to these Soviet-Union style practices. Fine. If you want to torture people (which I think makes you a sick bastard) then at least present the evidence and convict the people first. Then you can at least torture them for what they've done. (Don't pretend that a confession gained by torturing somebody is valid evidence against's no more valid than the false confession tortured out of Bud Day.)


And while you're defending this abomination of American justice, keep this in mind:


Now people who protest government policies in any way, people who speak of the need to defend the Constitution, or who reference the 2nd amendment, are being labeled "terrorists" by the power-hungry politicians and bureaucrats in Washington.


Rahm Emanuel has suggested that those who are on the "no-fly list" (about a million Americans now and growing) have no right to own a firearm. Not because there is some evidence that they're actually a "terrorist" or have any genuine connections to terrorism, or that they're even a legitimate threat...No, just because some unknown / unaccountable government employee, PAID to build the list, put their name on it. (Hell, the letter you sent me, opposing Obama, might be enough to get your name added...oh well. Guess you're a "suspected terrorist" now. And who could ever argue that "terrorists" have a right to own a gun?)


"In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution." -Thomas Jefferson


Joe Plummer 
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